I'm going to use this page as a running indicator of what features, changes, or fixes are most desired on the site. When I want to work on the site, I'll come here for inspiration. As I implement changes, I will remove the suggestions from the poll. Also, old recommendations will be automatically removed from the poll in order to keep it up-to-date.

I am subscribed to this discussion and will read all recommendations.

Either make the Voting Booth more equitable, i.e. make it mandatory for 'anyone' to post or get rid of it entirely. It seems to be the one thing many people take issue with.

Secondly, I know this has been tried as a thread, but somewhere on the site, (aside from posted tutorials), provide a feature that introduces lessons in art, fractal creation, photography, postwork or workflow of captured images. If improving the quality of the posts is the goal, why not provide the expertise for photographers (artists) of every level to reach it? Let those who know or are willing to investigate a subject teach those of us who don't.

The source for the lessons could be from our own members or from suggested links. There are some who already have lots of expertise and others can research a subject and present it and learn it as they prepare too. I've seen snippets of suggestions already in the contest comment threads, e.g. Dutch Angle, light on white, etc.

Once posted, members could ask questions about areas that confuse them or things they'd simply like to learn about. It is very difficult for many to post totally honest critiques on other people's posts so maybe this would be a new avenue to follow in helping them see what makes a good exposure, a good composition, good color control, etc.

Thanks for this opportunity.

I recommend distilling your most important idea into a vote in the poll.

Thanks for the recommendation.

Hello Geri,

Thanks for giving us the opportunity/possibilty to do some recommendations in order to make the Caedes site even more attractive for users than it already is.
I have only a minor suggestion. In our Caedes.net control Panel the images are sorted out by date. For me it would be handy if they could be sorted out in alphabetical order as well. Would prevent me from giving some images the same title, and it can be helpful as well to find back some earlier posts.
Don't know however whether my recommendation is a realistic one or not.
Regards, Cornelius.

If you click on "Name" at the top of the image listing, it will sort the list by the image name.

Thanks Cindy and Geri.

Cindy because she has sent me this PM: "Cornelius, You can sort your images by alphabet. Click on the word "Image" at the top left of your column of images and it converts to alphabetical.", and Gerri because he gave me a couple of minutes later an almost identical answer.

Didn't know that this possibility existed, else I hadn't brought forward this recommendation.

Cornelius.

Cindy is correct, I got the name of the link wrong after looking directly at it. =\

Maybe too complex to do, and fraught with subjectivity and personal annoyance, but I would like the C-index created from the voting booth to somehow eliminate the people who consistently mark good photos with very low scores. Or maybe the top 10% and bottom 10% of scores are not counted. There IS the option of simply ignoring the C-index, which I am trying to work towards :) but I am often left wondering why some good pics with lots of good comments get scores between 20-30. And I'm not just referring to my own gallery when I say this.

I don't think everyone should be able to vote. I've seen good photos with a very low ranking, and vice versa.

Kinda sad that the second place choice is the cynical non-item.

I'd ask for split voting categories (aesthetic, technical, artistic) as opposed to one arbitrary number.

I 'get' limiting voters, but that could be a double edged sword. We might inadvertently shed some of the people who vote most fairly, accurately, etc.

"Expanded image description area":

To include fields for;

i) EXIF data
ii) Program/software used for CGI imagery/works.


If left 'blank' ... then this area of an image's accompanying narrative will not be seen and reverts to that of only a 'narrative'.

My curiosity has been peaked, given that the suggestion;

"Let us find out the exact scores our image received in the voting booth"

... is far and away from the rest of the pack, as of this writing here.


Anyone wish to elaborate on the 'why' behind this suggestion? How this information will be of benefit to 'you'?

Les ~ I'd be interested in seeing the distribution of votes to learn if there was consistency in how people judged it. Is my '5' image a result of many people thinking it was average or of it being polarizing and receiving both very high and very low votes?

Thanks, Rebecca. :o)

CINDY Make it mandatory for 'anyone' to post or get rid of it entirely.Are you saying if you don't like a members photo you should have the right to remove it.

I'd second the suggestion that voting be categorized with possibly some of the following categories: Aesthetics, technical quality, creativity, comment quantity, Wow factor, etc. The over all score would be the average from the above.

ok, posted it as a poll item. Second away! ;-)

Edit: I'd suggest a total of the category values, instead of their average

Different voting booths for photography and abstracts. Personally I love both, but some people do not like abstract art, thus voting poorly on them. Unfair! If a person can choose which booth to vote in the scores would definitely show a difference. Thank you.

What is meant by "Location"? (I'm not sure I want to know about the cabbage!)

My main "issue" with the site is the lack of computer artists, and subsequent lack of appreciation or critique for computer art. But I don't know what could be done about that, so I don't know what to add as a suggestion. I do think expanded voting criteria would help a bit.

@ Joanie
I'm afraid if people have the choice to just ignore the genres they don't like, those will be even more marginalized. You may get better votes, but you'll get a lot fewer.

I agree with Hannah.

No, Roger. I am not saying we can remove an image. I was saying we should remove the voting booth.

Yes, Richard, my idea would take some people getting involved, but if you spend a reasonable amount of time on the site, you are already involved.

I guess the Photography section of the Discussion Boards covers some of this idea, but there is nothing really formal about that and I thought the idea could be put out there and the logistics of how to handle it be open to suggestion. Maybe just too advanced a feature for a site such as this one.

(What is an annoyance is this new business with the props).

The thing with the low scores in the VB right now is that more people are 'opting out' of voting by not caring if they get a c:index on their own posts. So, there are consequently fewer people voting at all. Did you notice how long it now takes to generate a C:index? Days and days.
When I had to vote on an image to post, I would sometimes vote on the whole 40 images I was allowed to vote on. Now, I just vote on the 10 I need to post.

I do think some changes are necessary because I see the number of posted images declining daily.

Rob, everyone's voice here is an item worthy of respect and consideration.

"Rob, everyone's voice here is an item worth respect and consideration."


Agreed, Cindy.

Even those that suggested 'more cabbage!' as a vote option .. 'cause who doesn't like cabbage?

Cabbage rolls in particular! Yum!

:oD

Different voting booth for abstracts is a good idea. I know nothing about fractal art. :/

I agree with the suggestion : "let us find out the exact scores". If someone has given a 0 or 1 just to be mean, at least we can see that.

I am surprised that 'no more voting booth' appears to be a popular vote.

I believe abandoning the VB would be VERY detrimental to the site. As has been pointed out many members have opted not to participate in the voting system and while I understand completely their reasons it means that many excellent images are not seen by visitors (potential members)viewing new images by the c-index filter method. There are over 1600 images in New Images and no visitor is going to look at them all - they need the option to view the higher scoring ones first - because first impressions count.
There are very many worthwhile images that do not make it to the Main Galleries.


Being able to see images' exact scores may go some way towards allieviating some discontent and encourage members back to the Voting Booth. Considering images in the VB not only makes one evaluate those images - it encourages all of us to view our own work with a more critical eye.

I also believe some reassurance that voting patterns are monitored and inconsistent or unfair voters are noted and their votes disallowed.
Members abusing the Voting system should not be tolerated, and I have added that option to the poll.

Cindy i believe what you are saying is true.I look at my voting score and think is it worth the voting.One of my photo's 664 downloaded it but the voting score 24.

I like having an on-line gallery of sorts here to show off my work. I also love seeing the outstanding work posted here by others. There will always be some sort of problem with things and I know the VB has drawn alot of fire. However the VB is really a great tool to be able to view alot of the fine work on this site that one may not ever see. My time has become more limited due to job pressures and the current state of the economy here. Thus I view as may shots as I can in the VB and post when I can, plus comment on as many of my friends and comment requests as possible. So please don't make any changes that would take more time as this would be harmful right now.

Thanks for having a truly great site for all of us to share our work!

Stan

Despite my comment about removing the VB, I really wouldn't want to see it go. I agree that visitors would probably choose to view the images based on the scores first and since there are now so many pages of images, not see the ones that are excellent, but have lower scores.

A suggestion in this regard is to weed out the Main galleries of older images since there are now so many and allow non-members only to view the galleries listed 'randomly' rather than by scores. That gives all the images a fair viewing by the 'random' desktop seeker.

Since we can't control a person's voting behavior (though I understand that some votes are modified by the system if they are way out of line), we could appeal to the voters to give as much consideration to an image, before voting, as they would want others to give to their own.

I think that everyone should have to vote on ten images (or even five images) for each image they upload. That does not seem an extraordinary burden and it would add more voters to the voting pool and hopefully give a more representative idea of how the image is viewed. It would be interesting to know what percentage of the members actually do vote at this time compared with the percentage that voted when voting was necessary to post.

If the anonymity of the VB were removed, we would run into the same issues that we have with the commenting, i.e. no one would want to be known for being overly critical and would adjust their votes up, but for the wrong reasons.


Maybe some folks want to do away with the voting because they never get a good index and become frustrated and leave and maybe some are just very sensitive to having their posts critiqued. Maybe we concentrate too much on judgement and not enough on helping others to improve. Granted, some believe that we could benefit from more "constructive critiqing" and that would be lovely too, but we can't get people to do what they are not inclined to do as this idea would have worked a long time ago.

If this were a perfect world, everyone would get the index they truly deserve, but since that is not the case, my alternate suggestion was to abandon voting altogether.

Agreed, Les. Maybe more cabbages are what we need as you suggested. Wouldn't hurt to give it a try.

Next time I'm in the produce section of the local market or go to Pulaski's Polish deli, I'll be thinking of you. ;0)

Hi everybody. I was wondering, did "we" all notice the words "most like" in the poll's question?

Would perhaps some of the items listed not be your number one thing to be changed?

And, how many of "us" are requesting changes that mean a positive to the site as a whole, as opposed to "me"?

And no, I'm not directing this to any of the several people who seem to think everything I say is directed at them.

I would expect that most of us are recommending changes that would benefit the site as a whole, since changes that were unbeneficial to the site would drag it down and then interest in it would drop.

I would expect it too, but there's been far too many instances of those expectations not being met.

I could go on about the site being dragged down, and dropped interest, but that's not the theme of today's episode.

Simply trying, in my way as a fellow member, to give the thread here a nudge in the right direction. Kindly join me in that effort.

Thanks.

Thought I had, but I could be mistaken.

I am the one who suggested " no more voting booth". And not because as Cindy suggested for receiving low scores. Even when one gets good scores, and gets put into the main gallery, one's photo often gets taken out again with no explanation. So the voting booth seems pointless as does the Art Council. Because the voters are ultimately over ruled by the moderators and it wastes everybody's time. Maybe a better way to decide what should stay and what should go is to rely on download numbers. If you get more than a pre-determined number of downloads, your picture stays, if less than it goes. I think the numbers would speak for themselves and be the most fair way to run the site.

The situation where moderators override ARt Council decisions is mainly due to the Art Council process still being in the testing phase.

In that case, moderators should have not been allowed to over ride the Art Council's decisions until the testing phase was over.

Number or downloads is not always a reliable indicator because sometimes images are downloaded only because they are difficult to see in the smaller view.

Number of downloads is also influenced by the length of time an image has been up and whether or not it is in the main galleries. Many of us have images that have been viewed 4000 or 5000 times - they shoud not take precedence over newer images that have not had the time or the exposure to achieve that number.
As things stand at present - it is very obvious that if an image is promoted to Main Galleries via the AC (and this often happens very quickly) the number of downloads increases dramaticaly. Other deserving images that slip thorugh the AC net are not seen as much and slide further down the viewing scale, especially if they are not in the VB pool. Also those with an enormous number of 'friends' whould gather extra views that are not necessarily because the image is in any way more deserving. The VB gives random images which seems a far fairer way to judge their worth.
Visitors dowload images that are more easily accesible - Featured Images, New Images and I would hazard a guess that the majority of visitors are searching for top quality non-photography art or landscape photos to decorate their desktops. Images in more popular categories attract more downloads but that does not really give a reliable indication of their value artisticaly or technicaly.



e.g. I have two very recent images - one is a landscape promoted to Main Galleries - score of 85 and 139 downloads. The other is a flower photo also promoted to main galleries - score of 78 but just 56 downloads.
Their c-index scores are very close but the number of downloads is very different. That is why I believe that ranking images by downloads would result in the more popular genres being at the top to the detriment of less generally popular ones.

A select all button!

I would like to have the time that we can post our images showing again.

After re-reading my own advice, and reviewing the items posted thus far, I realized I needed to retract my split voting standards vote, and instead propose stricter image standards.

I think if we all have to try harder before initial upload, alot of the other issues will be reduced, if not eliminated.

Hello everyone. Just adding my wee bit to the mix... I personally have respect for the Art Council concept. I know a member on it who although they no longer have the time to post their own imagery, check the site daily to fulfil their duty to the community. I think that one of the beauties of this system is that it eliminates the often somewhat sycophantic element of 'clicks' within the site. Images can be judged on their visual merit as compared to the popularity of a member or the dubious interelationships of "You praise my image: I praise yours." There is no mathematical logic either in the concept that a council, by being smaller in number, is more open to judgements in error than the wider 'whole'. The equation remains the same so the 'faulty net' idea is not valid. I would like to take all this a step further and say that I think there is often far too much emphasis in the communal mentality of "Bow down to the Great Ones!" I've lost count of the times I have made the point of leaving positive and confidence-building comments on a newcomers tentative image, solely to counter the pompous and negative 'suggestions' of a superior feeling old-timer: often one of no real talent of their own, but with a hell of a lot of "Friends". My point? There should be WAY more focus on encouragement, USEFUL suggestion, and support. We are fooling ourselves if we think that we have an open or attractive community if we can not even extend a warming welcome to those first reaching out to us. In a nutshell: Things need to get nicer here. THAT is what encourages returns. Good feelings, not big attitudes. I mean no offense, apart from to those who justly deserve to be offended. This community has many fine and fair members as well, some of whom I have had the pleasure of knowing... some of you in this thread. But I do think that this should be about much more than just scoring. Beauty will, after all, always lay in the eye of the beholder. Well, I have stuff to do so I'll leave it there for now and check back in later. Take care, one and all: Ricky.

P.S. I have no props. Does that mean noone loves me? Ha!

Hi Richard (Mannie3) the vb already does something like what you have referred to. If you read THIS FORUM THREAD you will find Caedes affirming that the vb process takes into account a person's voting pattern in the way it weights their votes towards the C-index. There is no specifics in that thread about exactly how this is done, but that it happens, is clearly stated.

what is cabbage?

Something of which Les would like to have more. ;0)

I find it incredible that people are asking for the "props" feature to be removed less than two weeks after it was introduced. Surely new features should be given a reasonable chance to take effect before being condemned???

No need to be 'incredulated', Sam. No one has condemned it. That seems far too strong a term. The question was posed by Caedes around the same time that the props came into being and the initial response was not favorable for some, but I am sure the feature will be given its day.

@Sandi; aka tigger3:

Need to add that option to the list above, Sandi, as I don't see it? Perhaps, something like "Timer countdown for postings/uploads re-introduced"?


@Jen; aka jeenie11:

'More cabbage!'

/\ Someone was just playing around and put that one up in the list above. Nonsensical suggestion, in short.

I put forth the 'expanded description area' in an image's accompanying narrative such that EXIF data, etc. ... could be an option for members to fill out in an area of their narratives and if so inclined.

Greetings all! First up, I do not mean to dillute the importance of this thread, but I do wish to say a heartfelt thankyou to all those caring (or perhaps pitying) souls who so kindly gave me 'props' after my needy comment. I like the props feature a lot more now... and feel a lot of love in this room. I must also remember to appear more needy, more often. It works. :) And now to the serious stuff...
I would like to know a little more about the VB concept, as it exists, to be able to add worthwhile input. Questions: What purpose does the VB serve? Is it to give members feedback as to the degree of appreciation a submitted image has received? Or is it a measurement tool used by the site to determine which images advance to permanent galleries? Also I would find it relevant to know how the figures compare between 'clicks' on the established galleries, and those on 'New Images'. The reason being that I hope to understand what people are coming here for. Is it members looking at what friends and others are up to, or strangers looking for specific quality imagery in a particular genre. Strangers will by the nature of their visit instigate advertising on pages which is obviously producing site revenue, and so have their own form of value adding to the site, while members provide the 'carrot'. Just trying to get my facts right. Thanks for your time and responses: Ricky.

Going to try and be succinct and answer your questions above, Ricky.

"What purpose does the VB serve?"

Going to quote myself from another discussion; "It is but a simple guide. And a rating system that can be used by visitors as one way to sort galleries. Good, bad or indifferent ... this function nearly exists on alllll other art, photography, etc. ... sites, in some shape or form."

On the note of it's relevance with respect to images being promoted to the main galleries?

First and foremost, it has never been used as a measurement tool to determine which images advance to the permanent galleries.

However, given the size of the task of curating the main galleries, yes, initially sorting the sub-galleries by their respective C-Indices ... would allow the image mods to move through this more quickly.

As more often than nought, the C-Index was 'reliable' enough to minimize the time involved on the part of the image moderators.

That ... is only a part of the equation though. As the other images would still be given their due consideration. So and in short, a time-saver of sorts from this side of the fence.


Relevance/figures comparing 'clicks' between the main and new image galleries.

One only has to review the 'numbers', comparatively speaking and of the two galleries under consideration, to answer this question:

Download/views in the main galleries far outweigh those in the new images' galleries. For a number of reasons, and of which, some are outlined in the posts above ours here (i.e. length of time an image has been on display on the site).


Which segues well to your last question..

The site exists for artists to display their work/images, get feedback, et al.

And I believe is a resource for most visitors and members, to find images to grace their desktops.


/\ Ok, not so succinct ... hopefully though, I have answered your questions.

Thank you Les. That was as succinct as it could be, and gives me plenty to ponder over.

I would like to see a place to see all current contest entries. I get to see only my friends, but would love to see them all.

Billyone - you can see all the current contest entries by clicking on "Contests" in the left pane of the front page under Jobs. From there you can click on "open for entries" in the current contest and there is an 'Entries" box upper right of page that opens all entries.
:)LE

I have put a lot of thought into the following and can only speak from how Caedes has affected me over the years. I think I must regress somewhat before I can comment on any changes I would like to see.

I found the site looking for landscape type wallpapers. When I found it I was astonished by the number of members and the great varied photos they would let me use for my desktops. I kept coming back and finally decided to get my feet wet.

I will try to be succinct in explaining the pros and cons of why I became a paying member and still am to this day.

1. My first posts were more of what I now know is the snap shop variety and no one offended me in explaining this. I like to think I am a fast learner so I tried not to post a snap shot, although I found the separation line to be somewhat gray at times.
2. I really enjoyed the comments that helped me to learn to make sure the photo was straight and of ample desktop size.
3. I started making friends and still have them to this day. Many of them took me under their wings and led me to editing programs and tutorials on how to improve my photos. This has been ongoing and has made me a better photographer.
4. I have purchased two cameras and three lens just from what I have learned from the members.
5. I dove in like a naked kid in a swimming hole and sometimes got in over my head, but I was never discouraged. But then it changed somewhat………..
6. After I reached a certain point I discovered I was not accepting criticism very well because I thought I had learned too much for that. I was wrong and I now see that.
7. I did a lot of commenting, but many times didn’t really say what was on my mind because I didn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings. That was after I stepped on some toes with my critical comments. I then realized maybe I didn’t have the right to say something that was meant to be just my observation. I took the ‘live and let live,” attitude.
8. After a while all the commenting that I thought was needed to retain my friendships--wore me completely out. I had often wondered why so many of the members that had been on here for a long time cut back their time to almost nothing. I now understand and I realize this is my own fault for looking at commenting as an obligation and not a privilege.

This is how it became for me in a nutshell and I didn’t feel right posting and not commenting. For some reason I thought of it as rude. I even thought about leaving the site but realized that is just running away without trying to help myself and perhaps others. With that in mind here are a few things I would like to see.

A. Perhaps a check list in the comments section to stop all the different ways we say the same things, but still retaining the opportunity to comment if we have something to say—good, bad or indifferent—your choice. Anyway your friends would know you at least stopped by.
B. If there is going to be a Voting Booth I see no better way to do it then it is being done at the present. There is no way to stop the natural meanness or the glad handing of people so we must deal with it or not put our photos up for voting.
C. This might sound a little bizarre but perhaps do away with the friends list and force us to look at all the new images. We all know who our friends are and we don’t have to be reminded. I think we are secure enough in our own feelings for that. Plus you wouldn’t have that long list staring you in the eye when you were returned from a few days off taking photos. After all, that is what it is all about.

I think I have rattled on long enough but would like to add that anything we can do to make this site a pleasant and learning experience as opposed to a job like atmosphere would be appreciated. But then maybe I am the only one who feels this way.

Thank all of you that took the time to indulge me by reading this.

You're right in most respects Tick. I too feel that its more an obligation anymore than fun and enjoyable. It stresses me out sometimes when I see everything I have to comment on. I like the check mark idea. Its something to think about. You're not in your boat alone...hehe

In a lighter vein, perhaps if we are having a props option, we should have an "up yours," option as well. :) Only trying to make you smile.

How about a hand with a thumbs up or a thumbs down. Everyone would get the hint then of what a person thinks....yeh or nay.

Going to quote our beloved 'eye in the sky' (*caedes) here, Tick:

"I recommend distilling your most important idea into a vote in the poll."

Ok, I did.

TicK

Human psychology, in this context the tendency of many of us to have insecure feelings about why people engage us or relate to us and then to express that insecurity by trying to earn what has already been freely given, is always going to play a strong part in how any system of review/feedback/friending/commenting etc is going to be used and experienced. Ron demonstrates how any of us *could* learn from our own reactions and attitudes, and grow thru them and consequently get a wider, deeper perspective on them. Way to go Ron.

For the record, I don't give a flying fig for the exact number of votes any of my images got in the VB, I can't imagine a more useless bit of data to receive here. I'm interested in how my images affect others and why and how theirs affect me and why.

Bravo Ron! Bravo! I sincerely commend your excellent comment: both for it's honest sharing, and for it's suggestions. To share of myself, for much the same reasons I personally chose the path of deleting my complete 'Friends' list quite some time ago. I felt I was commenting out of manners and obligation and equally I was denying people as yet unknown to me the chance for equal, or perhaps more deserving feedback. I'd be a liar if I said that on occasion I don't miss the 'stroking', but my REAL friends still comment on my work BECAUSE IT CATCHES THEIR EYE and stop in to say genuine hellos. Like Mikel, I don't care if I get praise. The biggest bonus has always been seeing that potentially my image is now gracing someones desktop and making them happy. That is why I have always signed off with "Hope it brings pleasure." I'm backing your bold suggestion Ron: do away with the 'Friends' list. My regards to all: Ricky.

I have just added that to the poll as an option. Kudos to you Ron.

I have read Owd Fella Tick's opinion above very carefully, and like to say that, in my opinion, he has hitted the nail on its head again. As always there's one exception to the rule. For me this exception is his statement of getting rid of the friends-list phenomenon. My reason for having a different opion on that is very simple: one can add friends to and delete friends from the friends-list according to his of her own choice. If one won't like to have a friends-list, it can be done. If one want to have a huge friends-list, it can be done as well. It's everyone's own choice, but please don't block the possibility for someone who wants to have, for any reason, a friends-list.
Regards, Cornelius

If you merely look at the "friends list" as a means to easily find the works of someone whose images you like, admire or wish to emulate, then, of course, like most things designed into this site, it has a useful purpose. I said we should do away with the VB earlier in this thread, but that was more of a tongue in cheek comment. I t hink there are points that can be improved, but that doesn't mean we have to throw things out. If you don't want a friends list, then don't choose any friends. It's really that simple. Some folks like having it for reasons I stated above. Friendship and art do mix. If you feel like a hypocrite, disingenuously commenting on everything someone posts just because they grace that list, then don't do so.

Cornelius and Cindy make good points and I should have realized that all I had to do was control the friends list on my end. Another example that I am still learning on this site.

TicK

I don't feel any of us should necessarily feel an obligation to comment on our friends work. I added people to simply direct me to peoples work that I was repeatedly drawn to. If I am hurried it directs me to works quickly but I still manage to check new images every day or so and comment on those not on my friends list but who have caught my eye. It is our choice whether to comment, not a social obligation. I feel it should be based on time and choice, not duty.

I agree that the HDR images should be posted in a special dedicated section.
In my perspective we can link to this section a explanation of how to obtain a good HDR such tips & tricks for instance.
Another interesting point to discuss is the photo description such as location and history. This will give an additional value to the photo itself.
Obviously a digital image, a manipulation or a a fractal should be treated differently. In these cases the ability is mostly the driver.
Ed.

Just a short note to whoever posted 'EXIF' as an option/suggestion.

It is already incorporated into the other above suggestion put forth, that of;

"Expanded image description area:

To include fields for;

i) EXIF data
ii) Program/software used for CGI imagery/works.

EDIT: iii) Image editing software used. I.e. Photoshop, Paint Shop, etc..

If left 'blank' ... then this area of an image's accompanying narrative will not be seen and reverts to that of only a 'narrative'."


As I believe/think that this will not only provide some information on the 'learning front', it will also provide a leaping off point for more advice, tips, et al. Stimulate some discussion, in short.

The Willing to Comment button idea above is to remove a possible annoyance to some members. I know that there are times where I am confronted with 2 or 3 'comment requests' when logging on! Needless to say... one should still be able to comment though recorded as unwilling! Of course the wording of the button text could be re-worded to be more precise! :o)

Edit: Or this idea could be incorporated as a carrot for paid supporters! :o)

"Edit: Or this idea could be incorporated as a carrot for paid supporters!"


/\ Interesting idea, Con.

Removing comment requests from Cadre members' "jobs" area.

Or, perhaps, providing the option to Cadre members to opt out of this aspect of the site if they so wish/desire might be a refinement?

Just wondering, can the poll be adjusted so that one might vote for more than one item?

And, still have to express a bit of surprise at some of the items as being the thing you (generic sense) most want to see changed (or added).

I agree that it would be helpful to be able to vote for more than one item.

Also - could it be explained about the suggestion 'Opt out button for arts council nomination'
I am uncertain whether this means opt out of having our images nominated (surely not?)or opt out of Arts Council membership. I am thinking if AC members just ignore their AC obligations they will be taken off the council anyway.

As long as we're crediting members with props and creds and everything else, why not indicate on their profile page the number of times their images are faved? To me that is a comment in and of itself.

Good idea Cindy! I like that idea a lot!

I like when they vote for the photos. I go to school and I like marks. LOL

Sometimes I can't remember if I already gave someone a cred for a particular comment... but I suppose it doesn't matter, and people are always entitled to an extra cred or two!

I would like to be able to see what the photographer was trying to achieve with is photo, before i vote.At the moment we enlarge then photo and vote on what we see with out the background behind the shot.If it is some one new,like and he wants help we don't no as you give you vote then you can go to is page. Meaning is photo is not great but you can see he or her is trying the hardest to crate good photo's,so this reflect you decision in the voting booth.

Well my 2 cents for what its worth kinda like Caedes as is. Perfect no but feels like home to me. The VB and the Big C well its a family thing we moan and groan but it does work not always as we like but its work in progress. The VB for myself I see it as a privilege so I looked up the word Vote. made me think should we be collecting single votes or saying some votes are worth more than others. So a Abstract Artists vote in the Photo gallery is worth 1 and in the Abstract gallery 1.5 this based on the percentage of lets say Abstract artists. But as I said work in progress and maybe food for thought.

I just want to say that I think an abstract artist can well appreciate a good photo and a photographer can well appreciate a good abstract. At least, that's as I see it. I don't have to know how to do something to like the way it looks.

I agree with Cynlee.
I can not make good fractals or computer art but that does not prevent me from enjoying and appreciating them - and judging them good enough to use for my own desktop (isn't that that main aim?) on many occassions.
Just as most of us can appreciate a fine building without being an architect or a builder, or appreciate a classic car without knowing how to assemble or even drive it.

I suggested "An abstain choice in the VB" and here are my thoughts on the idea. Sometimes I get an image in the VB which I really cannot decide if it's mediocre, bad or simply too far outside my aesthetic for to "get". At the moment I still have to vote on that image because it stays there waiting for me if I leave the vb and come back later. :) I take my voting seriously and give it thought so I'd like the chance to not vote and move onto the next image and not feel I might have disadvantaged a good image with my narrow aesthetic (Or advantaged a poor image by voting higher than my aesthetic doubts would have suggested.). If maybe we could abstain once in every ten votes, something like that, so people would not simply abstain on a series of images until they got one of their mates images to vote on or something similar. Some way to have the abstain choice but also limit it's capacity for being abused.
Mikel.

I wrote the following thoughts on the Voting Zero thread, but upon further consideration I feel they belong here as well. So, pardon the redundancy, but I felt this was important. Thanks.

If someone draws a mustache on the Mona Lisa, it's still the Mona Lisa. The mustache is just a petty act of disrespect. I'd imagine that zero votes, and or votes seen as inappropriately low, are similarly perceived.

Which leads me back to my proposed poll item of multiple vote criteria. It won't completely eliminate all low voting, but it might separate the lazy and the uninformed from those who may be out for a little mischief. Maybe the extra moment or two spent pondering each image, and voting for three (as an example) different areas of accomplishment wouldn't be such a bad thing. Voters could actually see the image, I'm hoping, and not just look at it long enough to pass a fleeting arbitrary number onto it.

The front page of this site announces it as a community.

Photographers versus computer artists, low scorers versus high scorers, newbs versus vets, etc don't come across to me as being even slightly community related.

Here's what I want most for caedes.net :

A constructive, all-inclusive place where creativity can flourish, where "us" is more important than "me". I want a place where someone can see a work by someone, and judge it for itself, not for who posted it. I want a place where a lonely images gallery is rendered unneccessary.

I don't believe in Utopia, but I do believe we could all afford to re-calibrate our approach to this site, what itmeans to each of us, and what our actions may mean to the "community". You can't crap ^in your garden and then cry because the flowers look like s**t.

Rob, You can't expect people with derelict tendencies to 're-calibrate' because you suggest it. Would be nice, but behind the privacy of their monitors, they may not see it that way. They may even be inclined, because of your words and the words of those of us who have shown objection to the zero votes, to do more mischief.

Requiring people to vote on several aspects of an image is a good idea, but one that may make more folks disinclined to go to the VB at all, as some now avoid it even though they get no voting on their own images. Your proposal would work, as I see it, only if voting were mandatory for all who post, without the option of avoiding it by not having their own images put to the voting system.

I think the voting would drop off some and and those who select zeros all the time would just select the lowest possible choice for the multiple criteria.

" but I do believe we could all afford to re-calibrate our approach to this site, what itmeans to each of us, and what our actions may mean to the "community". "

That was aimed at the membership body as a whole, not specific individual with shady agendas. As for 3 votes per image instead of 1 driving some from the VB, maybe that's not a bad thing. I'm not sure voting should be a drive-by, rushed process. I'm looking to inspire more accurate votes. If that means that some ppl who want to click and run won't participate, I can live with that.

"Remove 0-1-2 from the voting booth"

Seriously?? How would that help with anything?

Just a note on this topic, sometimes the image presented in the VB deserves a 0. I have done that myself, I have seen some very poor images uploaded and ran through the VB. By poor I mean even poorer than poor, so I give those a 0.

I also agree with gizmo1 above on their comment. It would be nice to read about the image in the VB, as we have no idea what had to be done to even get the shot.

If you start voting from 3, that just makes 30 the equivalent of a zero. Seems rather pointless, no? *shrugs* Anyway, nothing further to say on the subject...

Hey, I know! Let's make the only available score a 10. Make it actually worth 0 since everyone votes 10 all the time. Since everyone is now in effect receiving 0's let's adjust the 0's to be 5's. Since 5 is way too low and unfair, let's change it to 9. 9's a good number. Wait. How can everyone possibly deserve a 9?!?


Ok, start over....

:-/

If you stopped voting altogether then there would be no more need for all these long endless discussions. Why can't we just enjoy the pictures? We all have the option of NOT looking at the ones we don't like.

No, no, no, Rob. No nines! It's like a leading tone in music - needing resolution up to ten. I like ten.

I some times post a picture or image that I think is a 10 but I maybe lucky in the VB that its gets a 5. In retrospect if I look again at my image as a voter most of the time I can see the why. So lets see 1 to 10 huuuummm is it the number or not knowing hoe gave the number in the VB. Food for thought why not post the voters of the day or the most active voters of the week we already have the site information with the most active members which also gives a rough idea of who is voting. Caedes is a mirror for our work if I make a Rembrandt and there's no one to tell me it's a Rembrandt well. But something that really scares me making something that should not be seeing the the light of day a there's no one to tell me. So if I make something that's a 0 please tell me and of course if you can't stand the heat well........................

To whomever suggested removing 0, 1 and 2 from the Voting Booth, Many thanks!
Whether intentionally or not, you given me the biggest laugh I've had on this site for ages.
It immediately put me in mind of Spinal Tap's amps that went up to 11.
Seriously though, it's the start of a good idea. The only possible resolution to all this self-induced silliness is to remove 0, 1 and 2 - then to swiftly do the same to numbers 3 to 10 also.

I agree with Bruce 110 (another ridiculous number)percent. lol

@catwesel THIS IS SPINAL TAP! haha, you're whole comment made me laugh.

When I return off holiday,I'm greeted by approx 500 uploads and 100 subscriptions,I have to individually delete everyone,A select all option would be very useful and save me getting RSI....R.